Faith and Doubt, A Conversation Between Friends

This is an unusual blog I guess, but I thought to myself, it might be kind of interesting, Aaron and I are best friends and we sometimes debate our faith quite strongly, we are the same faith and many times we argue different sides of the same coin...anyways, we ended up discussing/debating faith and doubt and this is our discussion. Enjoy:

Matt says:hi

Matt says:what's up?

Aaron says:hey
Aaron says:not much u?

Matt says:same just bored so I came online

Aaron says:yeah

Aaron says:i wanted to go to young adults tonight but couldnt get a hold of anybody

Matt says:aw really? that sucks

Aaron says:yeah

Matt says:so any new blogs?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:nope

Aaron says:u?

Matt says:lol no, just haven't had the time

Aaron says:yea

Matt says:what are you doin on here?

Aaron says:not a lot

Aaron says:lol

Aaron says:i have nothing better to do

Matt says:lol have you ever fasted?

Aaron says:yeah i did once. i think i told too many ppl about it though. sorta took the serenity away

Matt says:lol yeah, if I ever fasted I wouldn't tell anyone...or I'd try as long as possible not to tell anyone...I am just curious about fasting

Aaron says:yeah. it's a good practice

Matt says:well what's the purpose of it?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:it's like a self-sacrifice type of thing. similar to the offering plate i guess. where you spend an entire day with God. anytime you think about food or get hungry, talk to God... or worship. or read your bible

Matt says:hmmm....but why is it good? because that just seems like you try to distract yourself with God? is that good?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:it's good if your intent is to seek God yes

Matt says:hmmm....how long do you think a successful fast lasts?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:sometimes a day, sometimes a week, sometimes a month

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:my aunt did one for 40 days

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:because that's the longest you can go without food i think

Matt says:40 days! wow...I thought about fasting this week...but I pushed it aside...the thought keeps stickin with me...and...ok, I don't know if this was God's voice or my own thought but I "thought/felt/heard"...

Matt says:"Your desire must outweigh everything else"

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:how do you mean? what desire?

Matt says:I think that meant my desire for God, my desire for something more, for change and freedom...basically for God and all He promised

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:yeah

Matt says:at least that's what I thought when I felt that way and think it still

Matt says:I dunno, I'm gonna trust what you say...you think that was me or is that something you think that God would say?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:wel, what do you mean when you say more of God? like what does that mean you get more of/look for/want

Matt says:it means....it just means pursuing God...it means letting him pick me up and hug me and fill my cup to overflowing and dancing with him and catching his heart

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:so is it like a feel-good session? or are you wanting God to tell you something?

Matt says:neither and both...I don't just want God to tell me something, I want him to take my hand, take my heart, take my head and point it somewhere, I want him to take me on a walk with him, I want to touch him and see change happen both in me and outside of me in those around me

Matt says:I want him to take me somewhere...I want to realize my purpose

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:okay, but what part of your life do you want God to grab ahold of?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:like you've made countless decisions in your life up to this point. if God told you to let go of something would you?

Matt says:I guess that's why those words were said to me "your desire must outweigh everything else"...I think at this point I would still be afraid if God did talk to me...but honestly I think anyone would be, and truthfully I don't know if I would...I would love to say yes but I really don't know...I've never been to that spot

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:i know

Matt says:so I will say that I don't know...but not knowing isn't reason enough to stay away from Him is it? like honestly if God told you today that he didn't ever want YOU to marry, and that he wanted you to forget about girls altogether and go and talk to i dunno...some people you really didn't want to would you do it?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:lol

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:well i would ask God to show me a sign. but more than one sign. like 3

Matt says:lol but then where would your faith/trust be? I gave you an extreme, but still... ok, but would you fearing the worst not ask for that third sign? or would you not seek God if you weren't sure what he wanted from you? or what he would tell you to do?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:or if i got 2 and not 3...

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:that' swhere i am right now

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:i'm waiting for a 3rd sign

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but i'm waiting for a 3rd sign

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:and it is getting rough because i'm getting impatient

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but God is teaching me patience

Matt says:but why? why three signs? why not one or two?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:because i had 2. and to make sure they were both signs, i asked God to show me one more.

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:and i only asked for one more.

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if i receive one more that's it. i wont keep asking for more signs

Matt says:yeah, but if youhad two then a third one seems redundant

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:people do act on one.

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but it's risky... i dont know how to explain it... basically if it's not in God's will, and you act on it then you are sinning.

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but i think the closer you are to God's heart the easier it is to hear Him

Matt says:it's like....sign one-wow I didn't expect that...maybe it was too easy of a sign, so just to be safe I'll ask for a second...who a there it is!...ok I still don't trust so can I have a third? like...why not trust if you have two signs? I agree...I think the closer you are to God the more he makes himself known to you

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:not to say someone should ask for 4 signs or more the further they are from God.

Matt says:lol no, that I think would just scream I DON"T TRUST YOU

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:well i received 2 signs in 3 days. the 2nd one was what made me realize it could be a sign

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:so to confirm, I askd for a 3rd one

Matt says:ah ok

Matt says:that makes sense

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:yeah

Matt says:sorry I wasn't tryin to say you have no faith because I know you have more than most do...but you do see what I meant right?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:yeah

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:basically i don't think God is going to deliberately try to mess me up by allowing me to receive a 3rd sign if he doesn't want me to do something

Matt says:true, HOWEVER maybe he's waiting for you to step out in faith without him having to prove himself all the time

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but it's not proving himself. it's allowing for God to work in His own timin

Matt says:no, it's really not...it's asking him to prove that he'll be behind it

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:so whats wrong with that?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:what's wrong with knowing God's hand is upon something you are stepping out in faith for?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:you can't act in faith if God hasn't said he would back you up right?

Matt says:I dunno if there is anything wrong with it...but where is the faith if you already know that God's hand is on it?

Matt says:you can act on faith if you don't have proof, you step out believing that with or without results God will use that situation

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:there's faith that God wants to see this happen, then there's faith that God will do it when he's ready

Matt says:yes there is but really what is the difference between those two?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:because God's timing is everything

Matt says:with or without a sign...God will work in them won't he?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:say i met the girl i was supposed to marry tomorrow... but God didn't want me to ask her out yet. because she's not ready for a relationship.

Matt says:then you don't ask her out

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:exactly

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but how would i know when to ask her out?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:when things make sense in MY mind?Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:my understanding of her readiness for a relationship?

Matt says:no, it would be your trust in God's understanding of her heart...but what if all you hear is a feeling in your heart one day? no signs, just a peace or a nod? but say also that you want to start something up and all the doors are open to you...or at least one or two are open...now you have no PROOF that God is going to do something if you grab ahold of those doors but doesn't he open those doors?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:i heard someone say once that the right one at the wrong time is still the wrong one

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but how do you count the doors?

Matt says:and yet I've heard others say that even if you haven't married "the one" (so you married the wrong one) then they still become "the one"?

Matt says:you don't count the doors man...you step through them...door one...does your pastor support you?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if you SEE that 2 or however many doors are open, and you want to stay inside God's will, you must then let God make your next step. that is letting Him direct your path

Matt says:door two...(maybe one) what does your heart say about it? what do you feel in your spirit?Matt says:etc...

Matt says:but if the doors are open and you do nothing then God can close them too because of your lack of faith

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:not if you let Him make your next step

Matt says:but how do you let Him make your next step?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:God says he will never leave you nor forsake you. that means that if you tell Him that you are relying on Him for something, he will not let you down. he can't

Matt says:he's not going to force you...he's not going to dazzle you and all that MOST TIMES...he's going to ask you to trust and then YOU have to make that step...he doesnt' step the step of faith for you...YOU do

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:i just told you

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but thats blind faith

Matt says:no you didn't you told me that you have to let him make your next step...what does that mean? how does God make your next step? opening door number three? or do you step through door number one trusting that God will make door number two open if it is his will?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:that's faith in your own understandingMatt says:what is faith in my own understanding?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:saying that you step out "in faith" knowing somehow that God is behind you because doors are open

Matt says:that's blind faith man

Matt says:you don't know that all the doors are open

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:exactly

Matt says:BLIND FAITH IS GOOD

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:no it's not

Matt says:IN GOD? why isn't it? How is blind faith bad?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:blind faith is different than faith in God

Matt says:which is worse...depending on God for signs or following God without the signs?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:following God without the signs

Matt says:right...that's blind faith

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:that's putting you infront of God in every decision you make

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:how do you know if you're following a deer in the woods if you're not looking for the tracks?

Matt says:blind faith doesn't put you in front of God

Matt says:It takes God at his word and steps out there...and you don't you follow the tracks

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:dude you've got blind faith mixed up with something else

Matt says:I don't think so...is blind faith asking for signs?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:no

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:blind faith is seeing what looks good and stepping out "blindly" and asking God to work in your new circumstance

Matt says:NO that's just stupidity...Blind faith IS faith...."Faith is the substance of things hoped for the lack of evidence seen."

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:well of course

Matt says:no evidence

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but don't call it blind faith

Matt says:it's blind faith...why don't call it blind faith?

Matt says:a child has blind faith in God

Matt says:why shouldn't we?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:the lack of evidence seen is how God will use you. not the steps you take.

Matt says:they believe everything he says

Matt says:you think sitting on your butt God'll use you because you hope for something?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:no. God says be trusting like a child. if God tells you to do something that makes no sense, you do it without hesitation

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:i'm not sitting on my butt

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if prayer is sitting on my butt then yes i am sitting onmy butt

Matt says:right...blind faith...no He lets us take part in his plan, he asks us to be active and to pursue him, he asks us to take a step

Matt says:no prayer is taking a step man...YOU pray, YOU take a step, you do it because you love God yes, but YOU do get to be active in this faith

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:dude. faith is different than blind faith

Matt says:God wants us to be a part of it...why else would he give us the great commission? why would he tell people that it was their faith that healed them? He's given us this wonderful opportunity to be a part of his plan and part of that opportunity consists of taking a step of faith...but it's us who he asks to take a step...He COULD do it without us...but he doesn't...

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:remember indiana jones?

Matt says:yeah leaping

Matt says:blind faith?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:indiana threw some rocks out in front of him. that's the EVIDENCE of things unseen. if it were blind faith, he would have just stepped out. (and possibly fallen for all he knew)

Matt says:but it would have been real faith

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:the "signs" that you ask for are like the pebbles

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:no man

Matt says:yes it would have...he had a book that told him to take a leap of faith...if he would have jumped that leap would have had no evidence...yet he would have done it...things hoped for....no evidence...faith

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if i TOLD you to step out into what seemed like thin air to you, that's different than if you just decided to.

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if God tells you, that takes the place of the pebbles.

Matt says:NO it doesn't

Matt says:it really doesn't man...God is invisible to our eyes...He's there, there is no doubt about it because I believe Him, but he is invisible which leaves room for doubt...if there is room for doubt in that then trusting him when he says something is still a leap of faith...without pebbles...because we also have an invisible enemy...one who is extremely decieving and very clever...if one didn't know

Matt says:God's voice the enemy could tell them to jump and they could confuse the voices...that leaves room for doubt...faith is blind at times man...NO PEBBLES

Matt says:NO EVIDENCE

Matt says:STILL BELIEF AND HOPE

Matt says:FAITH

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:dude you're missing it

Matt says:How?

Matt says:couldn't you be the one missing it?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if you are hearing God's voice, that's enough evidence for you to move forward

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:that IS your pebbles

Matt says:BUT THERE IS ROOM FOR DOUBT...it's not evidence!

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:well if there's room for doubt, then you're the one lacking faith.

Matt says:No it's how things are man

Matt says:you mean that just because both God and Satan are invisible to the naked eye...there is no room for doubt AT ALL

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:that is God's intent yes

Matt says:I disagree

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:HOWEVER

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:many people cannot distinguish the voice of God

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:so they need signs

Matt says:I believe that there is room for doubt...

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:how?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:i just explained it to you

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:are you arguing that there is not one person who can distinguish the voice of God and not have any doubt?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:because i would highly disagree

Matt says:ok, first condone the idea that maybe we're on the same page...also condone the idea that maybe you could be wrong...I will admit that because I'm just speculating I COULD be...I don't think I am but I could be...but if I could be then you could be too

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:look at Samuel. he heard the voice of God before he was even a christian. he heard it like it was Eli in the next room

Matt says:I'm not arguing that there is not one person that can distinguish the voice of God and not have any doubt...but I am arguing that there is still room for doubt...and at one time or another Many if not all...have had doubt creep in

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:well of course

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but that does not mean that one should act on their faith if they have any doubt

Matt says:SO there is room for doubt, and without that doubt true faith could never exist

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:no. i dont think you should act until you get rid of your doubt

Matt says:why?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:because only then could you know that it is God's will

Matt says:but that's part of trusting him

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if you do doubt, then ask for a sign

Matt says:acting on belief, on faith

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:how can i trust you if i doubt you?

Matt says:by choosing to

Matt says:and I'm not saying doubt God

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if you call me on the phone and tell me to meet you somewhere, and i can't be sure it's you that's speakng, how can i fully trust you knowing that there is an enemy out there who seeks to destroy me

Matt says:there IS an enemy out there who seeks to destroy you...you know that...I'm saying that sometimes God will open a door, He may not directly say "Aaron, see that door? I opened it for you...go through it" it may just seem like a coincidence that it is opened, but to trust that God was behind it because nothing goes against his word (the Bible) then step out

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:dude if you can do that without a hint of doubt, then more power to you. because it is possible. but not if you have any doubt

Matt says:I'm saying that sometimes God will say something to your spirit, you may not hear it audibly, it may even sound like your own thoughts, which leaves room for doubt, but still if it lines up with scripture trust God and step out, if it was you, God can still do something there, if it was him...then you were obedient

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if it lines up with scripture, that's your pebbles

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:because you're "checking"

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:a man told me once that God told him it was okay to have sex with his girlfriend. they were not married, but he said God told him it was okay

Matt says:No man it's not, it's my map...it's so that I don't meet the enemy that you talked about...THERE IS DOUBT man...thomas the doubter, the deciples on the lake, when healing happened, people thinking that the deciples were drunk when God descended on them

Matt says:yeah man, and we both KNOW that God wouldn't say that...so what that person said to you was wrong, he wanted to have sex with his girlfriend and so he did but convinced himself that it was ok by saying that God told him it was ok....

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:yes... and look at peter stepping out of the boat. when he doubted, he started to sink

Matt says:yes he did, because even when Jesus right there walking on water as PROOF there is room for DOUBT

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:if Jesus asked the disciples on the lake to calm the storms, do you think they could do it?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:how is that proof for room for doubt?

Matt says:HOWEVER, he WAS the only one of the disciples to walk on water, because regardless of the doubt and fear, he still stepped out in faith...

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:up until that point he didn't have any doubt. when he turned back to the boat he lost faith

Matt says:JESUS was PROOF...they had evidence that they could walk on water...however even with that evidence there was room for DOUBT

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but he saw jesus doing it first. so he lost all doubt that if Jesus said "come to me" then he would be able to do it too

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but if Jesus said "no, stay in the boat" peter would have sank

Matt says:it wasn't when he turned to the boat, it was to the waves...the waves scared him, he doubted Christ, even though he was right there in front of him, even though he had evidence because he was walking on the water himself...he had proof that it was possible, but even in the face of that proof, doubt crept in

Matt says:I'm not wrong man

Matt says:I know I'm right

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:dude. faith like a mustard seed.. did you know that the mustard seed is and has been the same size through all of history? dave williams once said maybe God wasn't just talking about the size of the seed, but its consistency. you can lose faith after a while. and some people do. but as soon as they let doubt enter into their mind, they take complete control over their own actions from that point

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:now you've changed your argument

Matt says:no I haven't

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:you just said that doubt crept in. meaning before that point he had no doubt.

Matt says:however it was there wasn't it? there was room for it? how can that be if he had no doubt? if there was only trust and faith without doubt?

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:no there wasnt room for it because he started to sink!

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:that's exactly my point!

Matt says:ok, I do see where you're coming from on that and we are arguing the same point, different sides...

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:as soon as he started to doubt, his ability to walk on water ended

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:when he initially stepped out, he had no doubt

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:lol

Matt says:yes, but in spite of his fear and doubt in the first place he trusted Jesus more, and with us it has to be the same, we have to trust Jesus MORE than we doubt, we have to step out of that boat because JESUS says we can, EVEN THOUGH OUR HEADS may be screaming....NO DON"T DO IT... PEOPLE DON"T WALK ON WATER!!! THEY DROWN IN IT!

Matt says:lol we have a knack for arguing on flip sides of the same coin man

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:lol it's your wording that throws me off

Matt says:and yours me

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:but you were arguing that you can have a little doubt in your faith when you follow after God

Matt says:I didn't mean to...I just said that God allows room for doubt by not actually physically appearing in front of us...basically I guess if you combine what we said it would be like this: Humans doubt, it's in our blood, it's in our nature...Faith is stepping out of trust in God and in His word...We have to trust God more and step out of the boat because JESUS says we can...the more we trust God the less room for doubt there is, until finally you don't doubt, turn from God and room is made for doubt which will bring you down and you will act less in faith

Matt says:same coin, flip sides

Matt says:lol

Matt says:and it always takes an entire argument to see it

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:lol but it was good thouguh

Matt says:it was fun

Matt says:lol

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:lol

Matt says:and honestly, I do get stuff out of them

Matt says:like maybe a blog

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:so do you see what i mean when i say that i need one more sign? because with one more sign, i have told God that my doubt will be eliminated with one more sign. and i have faith that God will only allow me to see another sign if it is His will

Matt says:then I would say that in this case this time it's ok, but I would also say that if you feel like God is leading you somewhere, trust him, check his word, let that be your sign...God will line up with the scripture...He IS the scriptures...so don't always ask for signs...because if you ask for too many sometimes it can come across as no faith

Matt says:or at least no trust

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:o for sure. its all in where you are at with God

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:most things i don't need to ask for a sign. most things you shouldn't need to.

Aaron -- http://aarport.blogspot.com says:and i dont

Matt says:exactly, but more so it's where you're willing to take God at even if you're not sure you're at that place yet

sorry I know it's wordy, it's a conversation lol...hope you got something out of it.